Doppel=synchro vs Solemn Judgement

[lkyrios]

So I used Junk Synchron,Ryko and Doppel warrior to synchro summon blackrose and my opponent Solemn Judgement it. Can I still summon tokens in Doppels effect?

[Deingel]

When a monster (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Monster) is Special Summoned (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Special_Summon) from your Graveyard (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Graveyard), you can Special Summon this card from your hand (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Hand). If this card is sent (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Send) to the Graveyard as a Synchro Material Monster (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Synchro_Material_Monster), you can Special Summon 2 "Doppel Tokens (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Doppel_Token)" (Warrior (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Warrior)-Type (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Type)/DARK (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/DARK)/Level (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Level) 1/ATK (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/ATK) 400/DEF (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/DEF) 400) in Attack Position (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_Position).

A copy/paste of Doppelwarrior's effect.

Now, this the wording that we are looking for:

If this card is sent (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Send) to the Graveyard as a Synchro Material Monster (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Synchro_Material_Monster), you can Special Summon 2 "Doppel Tokens (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Doppel_Token)" (Warrior (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Warrior)-Type (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Type)/DARK (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/DARK)/Level (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Level) 1/ATK (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/ATK) 400/DEF (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/DEF) 400) in Attack Position (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_Position).

Doppelwarrior can special summon Doppel Tokens when it was sent to the graveyard as a Synchro Material. Even though the summon was negated, Doppelwarrior was used as a Synchro Material Monster, so he still special summons the Tokens.

Edited the post, because I remembered I asked my friend about Doppelwarrior's rulings before it was released. I am sorry for any confusion the last post has brought to its readers.

[Ammonite]

i dont know if the above is correct... it never said that the synchro monsters summon had to be successful like "if this card is sent to the graveyard as a synchro material monster for a successful sycnhro summon....." It was sent to the grave as a synchro material monster reguardless of if the monster summon was negated (the synchro still goes to the grave)... i would wait for some more opinions... i am %75 sure you still get the dopple tokens and i havent seen a ruling on it yet.

[captainbladej52]

In this case I would say you would get the tokens as well. He's being used as a synchro material monster even though the summon wasn't successful. It was still used as synchro material which meets the requirements of the card to be sent to the graveyard while attempting to synchro summon. the requirements to get the monster out have been met by sending the material monsters to the graveyard only the synchro monster was killed in this example. think of it like this, the material monsters are pieces of mail sent to someone. they make it there just fine and are opened (effect activates) but when the letter being sent in return for the materials (the synchro monster) it's lost in the mail. Either way you look at it, successful or not they were still sent as part of a synchro summon. i'm pretty sure that's right but again I won't swear to it either.

[Deingel]

Sorry though, but I took this ruling from a judge friend of mine. He's in an OCG area, so maybe the ruling don't work here in TCG.

[captainbladej52]

I still believe it would work in this instance as it only required he be used as a synchro material monster. allthough the synchro never made it to the field the important thing is that he was used in the attempt to summon. I'm assuming in this instance you would as that's what sent him to the graveyard which would meet his condition of being used as a synchro material. Again i'm not 100% on this and would have to hear it from a judge myself but that's my take on it. if you go by that then yes you would get the tokens.

[YGO Master Shake]

This question has been asked a few times but with no real answer yet. Me and I think a few other people have emailed Konami but have never gotten a response. The only logic we can put to this is a card with similar wording and the ruling from said card:

Beast of the Pharoh
If this card is sent (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Send) to the Graveyard (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Graveyard) for a Synchro Summon (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Synchro_Summon), you can Special Summon (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Special_Summon) 1 Level (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Level) 4 or lower Zombie (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Zombie)-Type (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Type) monster (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Monster_Cards) from your Graveyard (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Graveyard).

If a monster like "Quick-Span Knight (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Quick-Span_Knight)" or "Beast of the Pharaoh (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Beast_of_the_Pharaoh)" is used as a Synchro Material Monster (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Synchro_Material_Monster) but the Synchro Summon (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Synchro_Summon) is negated by a card like "Solemn Judgment (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Solemn_Judgment)", then the effect of "Quick-Span Knight (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Quick-Span_Knight)" does not activate (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Activate) since the Synchro Summon (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Synchro_Summon) was not successful.[7] (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Beast_of_the_Pharaoh#cite_note-6)

Using these, you would not get the tokens.

[Ammonite]

the difference though from beast of the pharaoh is that it says "sent to the graveyard for a synchro summon" not "if this monster is sent to the graveayard as a synchro material"... the difference is the synchro summon vs synchro material. dopple was still a synchro material even if the summon was not successful

[YGO Master Shake]

Better example then:

Synchro Fusionist:
If this card is sent (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Send) to the Graveyard (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Graveyard) as a Synchro Material Monster (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Synchro_Material_Monster), you can add 1 Spell Card (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Spell_Card) from your Deck (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Deck) to your hand (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Hand) with "Polymerization (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Polymerization)" or "Fusion (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Fusion)" in the card name, except "Diffusion Wave-Motion (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Diffusion_Wave-Motion)".

Rulings under it:
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Synchro_Fusionist

[Ammonite]

seems master shake is correct... use synchro fusionist as an example of the ruling

[CellarDoor]

Wouldn't doppel miss the timing if you just black rose unhindered?

It does say can after all.

[Darwin]

Wouldn't doppel miss the timing if you just black rose unhindered?

It does say can after all.

Doppel Warrior has an optional Trigger effect that cannot miss its timing. All optional Trigger effects that state "If" instead of "When" cannot miss the activation timing. Examples of other monsters with optional Trigger effects that cannot miss the timing include XX-Saber Darksoul and Blackwing-Breeze the Zephyr.

[CellarDoor]

OK, thanks.

I am not familiar with Konami's rule's of style and syntax :-)

[Sayokyoku]

To recap:


So I used Junk Synchron,Ryko and Doppel warrior to synchro summon blackrose and my opponent Solemn Judgement it. Can I still summon tokens in Doppels effect?


This question has been asked a few times but with no real answer yet. Me and I think a few other people have emailed Konami but have never gotten a response. The only logic we can put to this is a card with similar wording and the ruling from said card:

Beast of the Pharoh
If this card is sent (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Send) to the Graveyard (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Graveyard) for a Synchro Summon (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Synchro_Summon), you can Special Summon (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Special_Summon) 1 Level (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Level) 4 or lower Zombie (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Zombie)-Type (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Type) monster (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Monster_Cards) from your Graveyard (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Graveyard).

If a monster like "Quick-Span Knight (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Quick-Span_Knight)" or "Beast of the Pharaoh (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Beast_of_the_Pharaoh)" is used as a Synchro Material Monster (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Synchro_Material_Monster) but the Synchro Summon (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Synchro_Summon) is negated by a card like "Solemn Judgment (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Solemn_Judgment)", then the effect of "Quick-Span Knight (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Quick-Span_Knight)" does not activate (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Activate) since the Synchro Summon (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Synchro_Summon) was not successful.[7] (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Beast_of_the_Pharaoh#cite_note-6)

Using these, you would not get the tokens.


Wouldn't doppel miss the timing if you just black rose unhindered?

It does say can after all.


Doppel Warrior has an optional Trigger effect that cannot miss its timing. All optional Trigger effects that state "If" instead of "When" cannot miss the activation timing. Examples of other monsters with optional Trigger effects that cannot miss the timing include XX-Saber Darksoul and Blackwing-Breeze the Zephyr.

Closed.